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Disgusting abuse of map making power

qwerty83

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survivalchaosloadingscreen.jpg



I thought the whole point of making maps was because it was fun, I don't mind putting out a pateron or support the creator of maps.
BUT, threating people who play your map and steam/record playing it?!
I would have prolly giving some to the pateron, but now with this kind of behavior, I rather not.

I do love the map though might be my top 10 Wc3 maps, but this is bit too shameless.

Thoughts?
 
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SvnmS

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It means that I can't tell which posts are serious and which are not.
 

Spectator

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I'm with SvnmS here, not sure wtf is real or not. But if this is real then wtf? Youtubers and streamers bring players to your map and make/keep it popular which means a higher a chance that someone donates to you on patreon. Usually, it's the game makers that pay content creators to play their games not vice verse but anyways.

I kinda get where the guy is coming from though and is jealous of content creators. Mapmaking requires a ton of effort but Blizz has made it impossible to monetize via advertisement/donations etc and the only way is Patreon which rarely ever makes anything especially since you are not allowed to offer anything extra to your patreons as a mapmaker. Meanwhile, content creators have ton of ways to make far more money and while though subjective I'd say their job is more fun and less boring than map-making.

The best way to fix this would be by allowing mapmakers to sell cosmetics in their maps with a cut going to Blizz to compensate. However, some maps that use copyrighted material from other franchises e.g LOTR would still not be allowed to monetize for legal reasons until they remove all the copyrighted material which is the names in most cases.

I get that map-making is a hobby for most people, so is Youtube/Streaming but that doesn't mean they should never get anything out of it. I'm not map-maker but dealt with the editor and map makers and can tell a good portion of map-making is aids and most of it is a chore at best not to mention the pain of having to deal with player feedback. If someone is a good map maker and people wish to support him/her it's a good thing they make some money from it so now they can spend more time/effort on their map-making. Mapmakers, players, and Blizz all gain from this. It's just I think Blizz is too short-sighted as it has always been to bother with seeing the potential of WC3 map makers so I'd doubt they'd come up with ways to support the map makers financially.

Edit: Another reason I don't like Patreon as the only way to make money for map makers is simply a good pathway to corruption. Only few people out of 1000s donate with usually 1 or 2 people donating the most. In Patreon, unlike selling a skin in which you get something for your money, you got nothing for your money in Patreon so the map maker might feel guilty. And let's say a certain individual wants some certain changes in a map and is also the highest a donor then you know. Some map makers never would but I'd bet most would do it especially since out of all the player this is the only guy paying. Whereas with skins now you got far higher % players paying in small sums so it makes the map maker less feel less obliged to go through with a certain person's request though I'd a certain people will always accept bribery regardless of circumstance.
 
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TerenasMenethil

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Well I was actually thinking about that some days ago but what this mapmaker says here is quite pointless no ? Since you can so easily swap accounts in wc3 and play with another smurf everyday even if you're a youtuber.
 

Dragon

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This looks like some very weird joke, but if it isn't-- that guy is nuts!

Assuming he's real, Does he honestly think anyone will give two fucks about it neither will they give him anything, he's delusional af.
 

Bersekr21

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I think it's okay to ask for money for your maps. It is hard work and sometimes people need the buck for the time they spent on working for it insetad of the time they could've spent earning money other way. That is completely fine and if he was like 'Please check out my patreon before you make a video from the map or stream it' that would be cool by me.

What I do not agree with is threatening the customer and telling him to 'Pay or suffer and burn in hell' - That is completely unprofessional and makes me not willing to pay for your product. I don't it's ethical either - You can egt frustrated and angry I get it - But threatening customers is pretty low and rather damaging to your buisness really - Since you run mapmaking as a buisness. And if you want to do that, you got to act professional, as all buisnesmen have to if they want to suceed.

-If this is real ahem
 

qwerty83

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I'm with SvnmS here, not sure wtf is real or not. But if this is real then wtf? Youtubers and streamers bring players to your map and make/keep it popular which means a higher a chance that someone donates to you on patreon. Usually, it's the game makers that pay content creators to play their games not vice verse but anyways
Don't you mean you agree with me?
Also what makes him entitled to anything? He just made a mod, not the platform itself.
The best way to fix this would be by allowing mapmakers to sell cosmetics in their maps with a cut going to Blizz to compensate.
Take Dota 2 Auto Chess, there you can buy a pass which grants you more candies, that you can use on cosmetics, obligatory, very small fee.
 

Empress Azshara

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I dont know man it seems like a joke to me
by the way if i was editor of lta i would have made it accessible via paying patreon
 

Bersekr21

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I dont know man it seems like a joke to me
by the way if i was editor of lta i would have made it accessible via paying patreon
You can't legally do that. You can't sell your maps with material in them that is not yours. And LTA is using some models from the game itself and some models made by other model creators.

Maps are like mods - You can't sell mods (Unless you're Bethesda)

EDIT: Reason why Bethesda sells mods it's cosue it's modification of their own game so there's nothing illegal about that - Tho I'd question the morality.

Aswell as I mgiht add it is okay to support development and the developer through donations, but not donating to acquare the product.
 

Ardenaso

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I've been to his forums once and he seems like a total dick "I do what I want to my map" is what I understand usually when someone complains or offers suggestions
 

Spectator

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Don't you mean you agree with me?
Also what makes him entitled to anything? He just made a mod, not the platform itself.

Take Dota 2 Auto Chess, there you can buy a pass which grants you more candies, that you can use on cosmetics, obligatory, very small fee.
Yea I agree with you, I was just saying usually people who make games pay YouTubers to play their games. Youtubers don't pay developers for playing their games.

Seems like Dota 2 did a good job on this, it's better than nothing which is what Blizz has done.

Legally map maker is not entitled to anything (though apparently it's not that simple if you are big like Dota's creators). As for youtubers/streamers paying map makers for playing their maps? no that is stupid.

I was just saying the map-making community would be a lot more alive and better if there were more proper ways to support the map makers financially so they can spend more time making maps.
You can't legally do that. You can't sell your maps with material in them that is not yours. And LTA is using some models from the game itself and some models made by other model creators.

Maps are like mods - You can't sell mods (Unless you're Bethesda)

EDIT: Reason why Bethesda sells mods it's cosue it's modification of their own game so there's nothing illegal about that - Tho I'd question the morality.

Aswell as I mgiht add it is okay to support development and the developer through donations, but not donating to acquare the product.
You can sell mods if the developer allows you too, you then obviously have to share profits with them. I believe Blizz did that with Starcraft.
The problem with buying stuff for mods/maps (cosmetic or otherwise) is not that it's not a good idea, it's a great idea that benefits all parties. But there is big But and the But is if only the game dev (in this case Blizz) is competent in managing their sale of mods/maps. If they are short-sighted/greedy/incompetent like Bethesda was it can lead to a whole lot of problems such as map/mod stealing or copyright issues as well unreasonable prices. All issues that can be managed if Blizz is competent and these issues have been dealt with by companies, it's just if Blizz can pull it off.
 
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Bersekr21

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Yea I agree with you, I was just saying usually people who make games pay YouTubers to play their games. Youtubers don't pay developers for playing their games.

Seems like Dota 2 did a good job on this, it's better than nothing which is what Blizz has done.

Legally map maker is not entitled to anything (though apparently it's not that simple if you are big like Dota's creators). As for youtubers/streamers paying map makers for playing their maps? no that is stupid.

I was just saying the map-making community would be a lot more alive and better if there were more proper ways to support the map makers financially so they can spend more time making maps.

You can sell mods if the developer allows you too, you then obviously have to share profits with them. I believe Blizz did that with Starcraft.
The problem with buying stuff for mods/maps (cosmetic or otherwise) is not that it's not a good idea, it's a great idea that benefits all parties. But there is big But and the But is if only the game dev (in this case Blizz) is competent in managing their sale of mods/maps. If they are short-sighted/greedy/incompetent like Bethesda was it can lead to a whole lot of problems such as map/mod stealing or copyright issues as well unreasonable prices. All issues that can be managed if Blizz is competent and these issues have been dealt with by companies, it's just if Blizz can pull it off.
As far as I'm aware there is no itnention on part of Blizzard to monetize Warcraft maps or allow them to be monetized though. This goes with almsot all games cosue mods aren't strictly legal even if they're free - They're not exactly illegal either - They balance in the grey area based on the developers attitude. And as I said before I do not beleive Blizz has any intention of monetizing Warcraft 3 maps - Maybe with Reforged but defo not Classic
 
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