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Lordaeron: The Foremath: DL Link + Info + Screenshots

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Marshmalo

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I agree on the autotrigger regarding the rebellion between Scourge and Legion.
However, imo Fel Horde could exist and same could go for Shadow Council. So far I think though, that it might be better to reconsider perhaps either turning Pink into the Draenei of Outland under the Aldor's command, while they controll Shattrath and Tempest Keep (same was the case in lore - Bloodelves took it from Illidari).
Or it might be worth a thought to give the Alliance already their lore bases in Outland (Wildhammer fortress in Outland, the Windrunner outpost and the Kirin'Var Village), so even if they get delayed, both Green and Orange/Teal have also a task in Outland.
Just give them a player to fight there and you give Yellow already at least one ally in the South/Outland fight.

Well I still want to retain some free for players andnot a fan of forcing them into the scourge rebelion, Lich King cant get their god tiers unless they betray so hopefuly this encourages people to rebel later in game.

As much as I ike the idea of Dreanei having Shatterath and Tempest keep, these would just become bases which get aimed down early game like we currently have at Scholomance and Alterac Valley. Theres no way Legion/DH/SC can advance on the alliance while allowing a base on their doorstep to exist. Also Pink player is currently very well fleshed out with the Rangers/Forsaken/NE paths. They would lose a lot of content and this would take late game content away from LB, also what would Dreanei faction do after their outland bases are destroyed? Which I suspect would happen in first 10 minutes of game.


I agree that Legion should potentially own Outland, but I neither mind it to give OJ either HellFire Citadel or the Black Temple.
However, make the summoning of Magtheridon an event, late into the game. Green could potentially do the job to get their overlord to Outland, so he also has some more stuff on which he can focus. Make it also mayhaps mandatory that he has to bring his units to certain places.

Now DarkHorde have lost SC content I think its overdoing it to also make them reliant on SC for Magtheridon, DH dont have a huge amount of events. They are already reliant on SC to open the dark portal. I would rather develop SC as more of a supporter for Legion as I think you mentioned too.

While speaking of Green - I already could think of further events, which might be good for him:
-Cipher of Damnation - Green has to conquer Tempest Keep and master a research chain during the game in order for the Cipher of Damnation to drop. Only Teal can pick up the item, similiar to the Lady's Necklace. By obtaining the Cipher, he must then travel to Shadowmoon Valley where he can summon Cyrukh the Firelord, who's tied to Shadowmoon Valley and the area around the Black Temple (works like Sindragosa, only in weaker). All in all doing this quest chain should take at least 30 minutes into the game till it can be launched.
-M'uru the Voidgod - same as K'ure, only with the difference, that M'uru can be turned into a Void God only, if K'ure has fallen. Given that K'ure isn't too strong, M'uru should only be his teleporting replacement in case Shadow Council lost K'ure, which can potentially happen.

Problem with allowing them to corrupt M'uru, we are taking content away from Illidari if that path is triggered... I guess only allowing them to have Void M'ure if K'ure is dead could work, but in response to your SC feedback Ive actually given K'ure some more support abilities and an escape spell. So keeping her alive should be alot easier now.

So... I don't think that Outland is necessarily not useful, but it could get some improvement.
Replies in red :)

Additional events for Lordaeron! (FANGIRLISM!)
Marshalship
"Since the times of needs has come, King Terenas have to choose High Marshal to command his armies"
Choice A : Two Marshals - Terenas chose Falric and Marwinn for his Marshals due to their figthing and commanding skills. - 2 Reviable demi's, Buff to Footman (and captain if this unit exists)
Choice B : High Marshal - Terenas chose Lord Garithos for High Marshal due to his war achievements in recent times - Buff to Garithos and Lordaeron Knights
Choice A should be stronger than choice B due to obvious fact. Choice B has additional event (Only in case if both events are taken)
New Tutor
"Since Uther is busy dealing with Silverhand, and cannot really teach Arthas anything due to that, King Terenas decided to give his son new Tutor. And this position is taken by his new favorite : Lord Garithos"
Requirements : Garithos and Arthas reach certain levels. Garithos is already chosen for High Marshal. Arthas and Garithos are near each other
Awards : + 5 str and additional level for Arthas. +1 Level for Garithos
Garithos will ahve a path, but it will be based off Lordaeron falling like in the campaigns, this was when Garithos character really came to shine and I think this is alot more interesting than doing events based on his promotion and career within Lordaeron. My path will focus on his will to "make Lordaeron great again" and maybe even build a wall.
 

somefaggot

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Wasnt Mannaroth present in the slaughtering of Lordaeron when Archimonde was summoned? He should probably be added.
 

EmperorFawful

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Wasnt Mannaroth present in the slaughtering of Lordaeron when Archimonde was summoned? He should probably be added.
Better idea - replace Maggy with Mannoroth, while Maggy spawns if Mannoroth dies.
Under these circumstances I would even say, that Shadow Council wouldn't need the resurection on Magtheridon, should he die.

And for all those, who root for Azgalor: Nope, if he gets implemented, he should be a strong demi, while OJ's elites should be either Shatterered Hand Executioners or Burning Blademasters.
I never got, why Pitlords aren't something unique within the game, but can be spamed as demis like regular Paladins.
 

Tdmien123

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Better idea - replace Maggy with Mannoroth, while Maggy spawns if Mannoroth dies.
Under these circumstances I would even say, that Shadow Council wouldn't need the resurection on Magtheridon, should he die.

And for all those, who root for Azgalor: Nope, if he gets implemented, he should be a strong demi, while OJ's elites should be either Shatterered Hand Executioners or Burning Blademasters.
I never got, why Pitlords aren't something unique within the game, but can be spamed as demis like regular Paladins.
It would make more sence if he has mannoroth instead of magharidon.
 

EmperorFawful

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Aye, exactly what I say.
Magtheridon is supposed to get launched after 20 minutes anyways, so granting Orange a research, where they get Mannoroth first, might be wise.
Especially when we tie it with Evil alliance breaking up anyways after 20 minutes into the game/with Legion summoning and we then get Scourge as a seperate team (Blue/Gray with potential for Pink/DG to enter as well) and Legion (Teal/OJ/Green/Brown with the potential of Red joining, if Brown leaves as a solo faction/getting kicked out).

Would solve more issues, as I think that Evil should have the initial advantage in LTF, given that they had it in lore as well, but they're dependent on taking out the power base of the good guys.

While similiar mechanics should apply to the good guys. I think Red should already become a solo faction after 10 minutes when he becomes Blood Elves, while he can reenter the Alliance only, if they are 3-4 players.

Mannoroth didn't have anything to do with Outland, though?
He gave the Orcs on Draenor the Fel Blood first, while Magtheridon gave them a second dosis - hence why these are red.
Furthermore the original portal through which Archimonde came was apparently in Outland, given that Kael'Thas and Vashj went through exactly the same portal, which Kel'Thuzad used to summon forth Archimonde. Mannoroth came probably as well through this portal.

It makes more sense in terms of the Third War to let him appear as the initial big hero for OJ, while Magtheridon is the 'Azeroth Wars Kil'Jaeden' in this game. Mannoroth is statwise better than Maggy, so if he loses him, Maggy is compared to his power the decent replacement.
 

Mesis

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Aye, exactly what I say.
Magtheridon is supposed to get launched after 20 minutes anyways, so granting Orange a research, where they get Mannoroth first, might be wise.
Especially when we tie it with Evil alliance breaking up anyways after 20 minutes into the game/with Legion summoning and we then get Scourge as a seperate team (Blue/Gray with potential for Pink/DG to enter as well) and Legion (Teal/OJ/Green/Brown with the potential of Red joining, if Brown leaves as a solo faction/getting kicked out).

Would solve more issues, as I think that Evil should have the initial advantage in LTF, given that they had it in lore as well, but they're dependent on taking out the power base of the good guys.

While similiar mechanics should apply to the good guys. I think Red should already become a solo faction after 10 minutes when he becomes Blood Elves, while he can reenter the Alliance only, if they are 3-4 players.


He gave the Orcs on Draenor the Fel Blood first, while Magtheridon gave them a second dosis - hence why these are red.
Furthermore the original portal through which Archimonde came was apparently in Outland, given that Kael'Thas and Vashj went through exactly the same portal, which Kel'Thuzad used to summon forth Archimonde. Mannoroth came probably as well through this portal.

It makes more sense in terms of the Third War to let him appear as the initial big hero for OJ, while Magtheridon is the 'Azeroth Wars Kil'Jaeden' in this game. Mannoroth is statwise better than Maggy, so if he loses him, Maggy is compared to his power the decent replacement.
So are you telling me a WoD was actually lore accurate except the Garrosh part ? :D
 

Tdmien123

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Hmmm dark horde get magharidon at 20 min in game,so maybe when archimond is summoned he could summon Mannoroth or Kazzak.

Edit:And when Mannoroth dies then dark horde gets Mannoroths blood pool at black temple like in LTA.
 

EmperorFawful

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I still think OJ should only have just Mannoroth, as two Pitlord heroes for OJ at the same time would be too much. Let Mannoroth launch after 20 minutes, if he dies, OJ gets the Blood Pool and can research there Magtheridon.
That way it's balanced,
everyone gets the Pitlord he favors and
noone is slighted.

Kazzak is already a hero, Legion can launch at some point. He's also tied to the time, though I would prefer it, if Shadow Council has to summon him under certain conditions.

So are you telling me a WoD was actually lore accurate except the Garrosh part ? :D
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Mannoroth#Mannoroth_and_the_orcs

Yes. Hence why WoD would refer to this scene and why Garrosh would even know that Mannoroth was there. :p
 

EmperorFawful

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I meant Guldan summoning Archimonde as you said he came from Outland
Yeah, that one is a tricky thing, as I don't think that Gul'Dan did it (at this time he died already in the Tomb).

It's more likely that they waited in Outland after they reconquered the remnants (Outland got created by Ner'zhul's attempt to invade different worlds by 5 dimensional gateways, which later would become the 5 gateways, Magtheridon commands - given that the Alliance interrupted the process, Ner'zhul could barely escape through one of the portals with his followers, while the planet itself collapsed, turning into what we see nowadays in WoW:BC) and used the Gateways for Archimonde to go through.

It's one of the things neither Azzy Wars nor any custom map gets right, but that's mainly to balance reasons. Fact is that Kel'Thuzad's Portal lead to Outland and that it was later closed assumingly by the Kirin Tor, when they rebuild/relocated Dalaran between WoW and WotLK. If we would actually argue with the nature through which portals Greater Demons can walk by game mechanics, Townportal scrolls wouldn't even apply to Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden, hence why they got banished to a seperate area, given that Azzy Wars always had an Outland fight.

Plus, it's also confirmed that greater Demons like Magtheridon and Kil'Jaeden manifested also once on Outland, but they most likely either returned back to the Twisting Nether, leaving the assault to other generals like Magtheridon or simply didn't bother too much about an already destroyed world, where they believed their nemesis, the Draenei, already as good as extinct.
 

ProxPlayer

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Garithos will ahve a path, but it will be based off Lordaeron falling like in the campaigns, this was when Garithos character really came to shine and I think this is alot more interesting than doing events based on his promotion and career within Lordaeron. My path will focus on his will to "make Lordaeron great again" and maybe even build a wall.
Marsh, Those thingies aren't Garithos Path. It's more of "Alter a bit playstyle" choices with characters flavour. For example, Garithos Marshalship focuses more on choke's, while Fal/Mar focuses on quick recovery after loss, and ability to "swarm" enemy.
Edit : Also, Why are you so concerned with being accurate with lore? It is Alternative History map, not linear RPG
 
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bananashoes112

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played as lordaeron and must say it feels weak after king dies also when i played i didnt get any help like harald got
proberly because he plays with hiis freinds and is on teamspeak and it is clan games but still when i played lordaeron feelt weak
that why marshmallow dont take advice from botr there ruining your map im saying for your own sake there only play clan games and dont know shit about random games and how big diffrence in balance there is when you always play with strangers like me
 

EmperorFawful

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played as lordaeron and must say it feels weak after king dies also when i played i didnt get any help like harald got
proberly because he plays with hiis freinds and is on teamspeak and it is clan games but still when i played lordaeron feelt weak
that why marshmallow dont take advice from botr there ruining your map im saying for your own sake there only play clan games and dont know shit about random games and how big diffrence in balance there is when you always play with strangers like me
Says the guy, who allied me, when I was Dragonmaw and betrayed me in Deepholme for no apparent reason, while I nontheless survived the entire thing after all.
Honestly, you should probably consider your own position before blaming others. TS talk might be more effective, but even then it barely gives you a better advantage, as you sometimes tend not to listen to your ally, because you're focused on the actual game and your own forces. Text messages are in my eyes more effective, given that you can read them up.

But well, whatever.
Also, I think you're too known to be just a mere stranger. ;)
 

Arthos

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Says the guy, who allied me, when I was Dragonmaw and betrayed me in Deepholme for no apparent reason, while I nontheless survived the entire thing after all.
Honestly, you should probably consider your own position before blaming others. TS talk might be more effective, but even then it barely gives you a better advantage, as you sometimes tend not to listen to your ally, because you're focused on the actual game and your own forces. Text messages are in my eyes more effective, given that you can read them up.

But well, whatever.
Also, I think you're too known to be just a mere stranger. ;)
still he got a point , if you dont know your team or there is not a good support evil or good alliance is going to fall since it will can be a 5vs6 or a 6vs5 etc etc etc making the map very unsteable for just having a 6vs6
 

EmperorFawful

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still he got a point , if you dont know your team or there is not a good support evil or good alliance is going to fall since it will can be a 5vs6 or a 6vs5 etc etc etc making the map very unsteable for just having a 6vs6
True, but you have that issue in Clan games as well. None of us is equally skilled. If one team features both Arius, Nale, Vidovit, KP or ilusioner, you can be certain that these guys will most likely win in the end, if they don't oppose eachother or are stacked on the same team.
Otherwise we also have games, where we need Randomers to fill up. So even then Clan Games aren't pure Clan games.

I think given that we have these excellent people in our Clan, they're actually the best guys to whom you should listen when it comes to balance. It's mainly the experts, who utilize the full potential of certain factions.
 

Arthos

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True, but you have that issue in Clan games as well. None of us is equally skilled. If one team features both Arius, Nale, Vidovit, KP or ilusioner, you can be certain that these guys will most likely win in the end, if they don't oppose eachother or are stacked on the same team.
Otherwise we also have games, where we need Randomers to fill up. So even then Clan Games aren't pure Clan games.

I think given that we have these excellent people in our Clan, they're actually the best guys to whom you should listen when it comes to balance. It's mainly the experts, who utilize the full potential of certain factions.
true but there are more chances to win as an stacked alliance or an stacked evil alliance
 

Hawk

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TL;DR
Beta test forum games are made so the best (members that are good with warcraft in general and are on teamspeak and have good teamwork) can test out and with their feedback help the map maker to balance the map out. You would've lost even if it was the most balanced map out there just because they are more skilled than you.
 

EmperorFawful

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true but there are more chances to win as an stacked alliance or an stacked evil alliance
Yeah, but these are the issues of the map itself, not of the players. We are all aware that the current product isn't perfect, hence why it is a beta and Marsh needs feedback. ;)
 
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