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Scorched Earth is too good or just OP

Charcu

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Now this post is linked to another post I read recently about the tree burning mechanic with air units and I wanted to talk about it. Now first of all, most players do not use this or they barely know it exists however I find this is one of the most important aspects in a competitive game of LTF. By denying lumber to an enemy you are essentially crippling their economy and therefore his/her chances to win the game. Economy in particular lumber harvesting is quite important for upgrades but is also a big source of gold. Gold is simply essential having gold means having an army, upgrades, Teleport scrolls… and a bigger gold pool usually implies winning the game.

Now lets see an example but first for clarification: 1 cycle = All flying have used their burning trees spell and are waiting cooldown.

Lets see an example with Silverhand (Has only 5 eagles)
Here is the our target:
9449

This is the extent of how much damage we can do with just only one cast:
9450

End result after one cycle:
9451

About 2 minutes later we can repeat this process denying again a big amount of lumber:
9452

9453


While we deny ourselves these flying units for a while we are also denying the enemy a huge deal of lumber and therefore gold in the game. Since 3-4 cycles can actually deny 90% of the lumber in locations such as Guilneas it is a pretty big deal to simply go for this strategy as it will cripple our enemy in long run.

Some factions like elves (Rangers/Highbourne) can really abuse this mechanic since they can build up to 10 flying units meaning they can deny big amounts of lumber to other factions in one cycle. In particular Ranger Corps as they can summon 6 dragonhawks (3 north + 3 south) for free since the first minute meaning they can start denying lumber without having to pay at all for these units. Cult can also gather an unhealthy amount of Gargoyles after plague. Locations like Guilneas, Queltalas or Northrean are particularly exposed to this tactic as flying units can simply burn trees and flee to the sea after to wait for cooldown.

In short, Scorched Earth is simply one of the best if not the best competitive spell available in LTF to deny economy to your enemies.
 

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Yousef

Paladin of the Alliance
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While it's a very good way to cripple enemy economy, not everyone can afford to do it because they are needed elsewhere, but if you are a top tier player you might be able to do it, I still think it might be too strong so maybe there should be a cast time to slow it down a bit but that might just kill the ability.
 

EmperorFawful

Burn it!
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I guess if it wouldn't be effective none of the developers would have implemented it.
Scorched Earth was implemented in LTA for exactly that reason: To harass the opponent's economy as wood in LTA can be transfered easily into gold.
Therefore: Legit strategy, ability is fine as it is in my eyes.

It's not like you couldn't achieve the same thing with catapults, only with the difference that catapults can't fly.
 

60ep

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You can't deny your opponent from getting lumber with this. First of all as you said yourself, this is only really usable in the late game, at which point players control huge areas of land. They can just start harvesting lumber in another spot, somewhere where their opponent doesn't know they are doing it. So the only thing that your opponent needs to counter this with is to build workers which are incredibly cheap and a lumber mill elsewhere, and in that way losing nothing but a very small amount of gold and time/focus, which you're losing as well by sending all your air units and microing them to scorch earth. So I really don't see Scorched Earth even close to being too good.
 

TerenasMenethil

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This spell is not fun, hard to counter since gargoyles are one of the fastest flying unit of the game. Can be abused by trolls.
Not used so many times but when it's used it's before the plague, especially at Gilneas and Quel'thalas. Difficult for purple to defend this because first he needs to see it coming and like I said it's before the plague so purple is away, like in the South.

It should be deleted I think.
 

Marshmalo

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I so rarely see this ability used but in order to completely scorch an area like Quel'Thalas or Gilneas it requires alot of management and time, provided your not dead you'd achieve alot more by focusing attention on taking cps and fighting rather than spending along time trying to kill all the trees in QT.
And as others have mentioned, there are so many areas with trees throughout the map its very difficult to completely deny your enemy any lumber.

I have found this ability useful if Scourge are determined to take the elven isle and I want to make the area less attractive and prevent them using it as a lumber harvesting base if they do conquer it, which is exactly the kind of situations this was meant for. Though initially the ability was added to give evil team a counter to the huge quantities of lumber alliance can gain through massing peasants, I haven't seen this being abused yet. If cult wants to use the expanse in gold and time management to prevent players from gaining huge lumber incomes I don’t see the issue, I think the complaints may stem from that fact elven and Dalaran players have become so used to their intrinsic wood incomes they now rely on them heavily for gameplay.
 

TerenasMenethil

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Though initially the ability was added to give evil team a counter to the huge quantities of lumber alliance can gain through massing peasants,
Evil team have more lumber if we consider that their "forests" are in a far safer position than the alliance wood. Like the wood in Outland is really safe and suffer almost no attacks until legion team cut down every trees, same in Northrend. And Legion have an ecodome too.
 

Jorlorn23

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A cp can be retaken. That is a temporary eco hit for someone. Burning trees is permanent, besides Malf's spell that regrows like 1 tree at a time. That is a permanent eco hit. It can and is commonly used in early game by blue/dg to destroy both elf players and dala's incomes. Sure, the elf players can counter the gargs by using dragonhawks and archers, but that requires them to stare at quel and not help elsewhere. Or they can mass towers, but we all know people react to that. Dala's only choice to tower spam as well. The air units of undead will always get off a few shots before the elf players can react if they are looking elsewhere.

"I think the complaints may stem from that fact elven and Dalaran players have become so used to their intrinsic wood incomes they now rely on them heavily for gameplay."
Dalaran needs lumber to afford the upgrades they need early game. As for the elf players, 99% of games they each get 4cps on the alliance team which isn't even 100g per income. So, their only choice is to go hard into lumber. Without lumber, the elf players would essentially have no eco. Let's see elf players with 1-2 upgrades each try and fight blue with 4-6 ups by the time plague happens.

Burning trees is difficult to counter, requires alliance players to focus on their lands (combine this with the gray mechanic of plaguing farms the keeps dg and lb distracted and you've got a solo yellow), permanently hinders elf players, and is more common than you guys seem to think. Also, I'm not sure why you think an undead player burning trees requires a ton of micro. All he has to do is occasionally go back in and burn another round of trees (which takes 5 seconds) and then move the air units back out over the ocean safe and sound. Plus these air units are cheap so it doesn't matter if they die. They can be easily replaced and sent back to Alliance territory.


 

rohirim91

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I agree with Jorlorn that it takes virtualy no micro to use it. You literally put gargs into a control group and every few mins you shift-click on dense woods and a place in northrend/ocean for the gargs to be safe in.

In my opinion, the best solution is to give this ability a 5 second casting time in order to give time for the harrased player to react.
 
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