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The Road ahead for LTF + Personal Opinion

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One Lazy Peon
Map Maker
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Well there we go 0.57 is out i hope will enjoy it alot but now more thought for me is what new plans should i release now.

Im gonna open up a bit about my editing and explain how i handle stuff. As some people pointed to me out i actually handle some stuff pretty yikes and yes they not wrong i did question myself what i was actually doing and at some point mid development of 0.57 thought to quit the map because i didnt feel like i did a good job on the map really + wc3 is such a mess for me i dont even know when it will kick me in the loading screen it was depressing for me really cause i doubt a Editor should edit a Map that he is unable to play himself , obviously i got into some games sometimes as you might have seen in haralds latest video.

BUT my i think i recollected myself after a small "mental" break i would say and will stay with LTF more for now atleast and i got some amazing people who help me with the map and give suggestions. @RedPandaLT is one person who always got my back pretty much when it comes to testing the map or quitting his sleep just to give some suggestions for Factions lol.

Not on the Forum but as some also noticed Awers comments alot on marsh sanctum when it comes to LTF bugs thats cause awers actually supports me uther and blade when it comes to editing with minor stuff or bugs + editing when no one of us has the time.

Thats pretty much my personal drama i had while editing. Now lets get to some of my thoughts for certain changes (wont address them all obviously)

General Changes:

Summoned Armor Changes

Obviously this is a change i should for sure comment on. Yes this is a huge buff for Factions like Teal who benefit alot from summoned Armor but that was kinda the backthought the current thing of summoned armor is sure it does sound nice for summons to be good affected but summoned Armor is so overused on some units alot a Dalaran blows Teals units or just summoned alot up in General. Especially when your main frontline unit got summoned Armor you will loose them quite quick (cause lets be honest most people got some sort of aoe spell damage or magic attacks). The Change ofc is more a test right now when it turns out to be to much of a buff i will most likely revert it.

The Renegade split

Ah yes the famous neutral renegade split going all the way up to atleast 6-7 members where you got Genn fighting togheter with Illidan or some other weird stuff. OFC you can say well Julian wtf you split renegades but they look in a shitty state Rouge Alliance will be slaughtered and yes you would be absolutly right about that but i think we just starting a new Chapter here for the Rouge Alliance + Illidari team because there is still alot of work room you can do with them

Capital Wall Removal


K that is bit over the top but my reason for the Wall removal is that yes Capital was quite defendable with it but i dont think thats how Capital should be. Im sorry Alliance players but i think Capital is one of this Key Alliance bases that should for sure fall in most of the Games that are played.


And yes while this might be true you dont need 4 man people to really give a ok Capital defense cause 2 man can get same result vs Scourge (Civil War makes it more difficult yes) Get a decent frontline and a Dalaran and the choke will be holded off and bombarded with aoe by Alliance destroying most of the Meeles when Blue wouldnt be that frontline tanky you will get quite a issue to push it. ofc when Capital falls WAY easier now i might add half a wall back but not the full wall anymore that is gone now

San'layn + Ymiron

Ah yes the famous Wrechted path mostly used as SCOURGE SAVE ME TAKE FREE SUNWELL IM JUST A NOT RELEVANT FACTION good old days. Not anymore because San'layn will be quite diffrent from Wrechted using the 3 Blood Princes and the Fortress En'kilah as new Base ofc you will see some units reappear from Wrechted (gotta use some unused Units obviously) but we did try to give the Units besides that some diffrent Units to feel somewhat more diffrent from the old Wrechted (if they somehow end to op make sure to report that). One Goal for Sanlayn is for sure the conquest of Silvermoon cause as all red paths work currently you will be moved to a diffrent position (screw you sunwell) but to give San'layn a quick offensive goal you can sail and take over Falthrien Academy and receive a Base + the Bloodstone Crown. Silvermoon destruction will unlock the old Blue San'layn DK elites as limited Meele without the drain aim tho.
I hope People will enjoy the Path tho.

Now about Ymiron of course one might argue you took right now 2 Heroes from Blue away and did give only 1 back. While thats true yes Blue and Teal suffer same fate of to many Heroes really up to 6-7 lol. The Vrykul aspect of Blue was something i saw back then already suggested before i was Editor even and he didnt sound like a bad idea tbh they were more a sub LK ally while San'layn did feel like a own organization both obviously fit to LK as faction (yes i contradict myself lol). Anyway i hope Ymiron and the Vrykul changes will feel ok to play around with.

Wildhammer Content
Ah yes Wildhammer a Faction most people go to annoy people rarely loved but yet something existing that could use attention always. While Lachlan MacGraf is not really a "relevant" character his Title kinda shows how he had for sure some relevance in the Wildhammer Faction and i think he can still work even when Dwarves like Kurdan Wildhammer are not a thing yet. The Deepholme spot is kinda questionable but i think the Area is something more a Wildhammer player can get then like a Grim Batol require because pushing Legion post Ironforge fall is pretty difficult unless Alliance is stomping over some laughable Legion right now. I hope the Hero design for him is ok and not horrible i wanted to go with the Summons in a bit diffrent direction and not simple press and let them do the work like some others , no this time while they got a passive they also use a active that allows them to be more powerful and reward a Wildhammer player who is able to use them in his Hero Sqaud.

Black Dragonflight Elite Changes

Yes i thought the Change was a good idea cause the current ones did feel like HEY WHAT ABOUT BROWNS ORC ELITES BUT IN DRAGON VERSION. The BD elites should feel by far bit more powerful then the orcish ones to make the Path look more like a option BD is really outshadowed by a mile from THC and not really a viable option bit down the road ahead i adress my thought on the current paths.

So yes if you didnt quit yet im suprised i hope the Grammar is ok btw lul NOW to the intresting Path i would say where i talk about the Future of LTF and what thoughts i got

The Current Paths

Its not a lie to say the new Paths outshined older ones alot or just simply got alot of Paths that outshadow itself like BD and THC or King Arthas and New Lordaeron. My Idea that i currently got is a attempt to make the Paths feel more diffrent from eachother lets take King Arthas and New Lordaeron as example. King Arthas feels now diffrent from Normal Lordaeron cause you dont play the Great Army of Lordaeron alone no now you got stuff like what if the Elite from the Capital joined the Assaults and Arthas stayed with lordy with new powerful Units that are empowered by the Light. Now there is New Lordy that feels like a catchup path when you lost Arthas and its not really a good path and feels below Normal Lordy (sry Garithos) what one might think is (remove that path you scrub) how about we make it a bit diffrent and give DG more the Survivor feeling as New Lordy and call it Lordaeron Survivors at first who can use a limit use of Units first with Garithos and Hero Sqaud still standing strong Restore Lordaeron would be here the gamechanger upgrading your Units and bringing you above atleast Normal Lordy level (not all to strong this is still a second chance path that got some extra steps to do ) here you could think to give some kind of new Units to DG as optiom.
Needs more thought for now still cant confirm anything what i do with it but i hope you get the idea

Now this thinking can go to all the Paths to make each one with a diffrent meaning and play certainly diffrent then from other Factions. LTF is a teamgame overall so while i wouldnt mind to give every Faction something decent to work with it would be always nice to see some factions stay at something better then others do example no one can match Dalaran when it comes to the pure Teleport Support + Utility he offers. While a Faction like Orange for Legion is a key Player for the Frontline he offers and just raw damage with the Hero Sqaud. Ofc we dont live in a perfect world or in a stable wc3 reforged so that is not always the case.

Where do Betrayal Paths fit in all of this
I sadly cant say how much Betrayal Path need work on now with them splitted into smaller numbers their number power is greatly let down and as you noticed in Haralds last youtube game there wasnt alot Gilneas + Onslaught could do and struggled vs King Arthas + Rangers (when i remember this right its almost 0 AM here) and that just gives you the feeling as Player so why did i betray the Alliance again? Thats why i kinda feel Factions like Gilneas or Betrayal Paths need that more feeling of being better then sometimes even 1 Faction to win more 1v1 encounters against Players who got a way bigger Team then they do.

Last but not least


And well in my personal opinion LTF balance is one of the biggest messes to work with sometimes alone how the Factions are designed kinda. Lemme just straight up say it Alliance feels like a way better Faction to play then Evil. Because Alliance can play more defensive while Evil is pretty much forced to push out obviously alot of new players will struggle with this QUITE ALOT and not really get a enjoyable game while New Alliance players got ofc still some struggles but get easier used to their Faction cause its just easier to play to get the Damage numbers with Hero Sqauds + A CLICK army really. While the other perspective is when evil is filled with 6 good people they can do work quite good it sometimes feel like a stall game until civil war so that the Action really starts for Evil. ALOT of this is sadly on players also and hard for me to fix. Like hmm do i buff Legion or Scourge now so that New Evil players can get used to it better OR do i nerf Alliance now so they fall easier its a yes and no for me really both options are something that can work and try to move Alliance Power a bit more in the back and diffrent for a attempt to keep up with Civil War better. I gladly take all Suggestions for People who got a Idea.

Well thats pretty much all i had to say for now when you find Grammar mistakes you can keep all of them. When People like this i wouldnt mind to do something like this after each major patch (screw hotfixes i cant write walls everyday). Above is a poll where people can judge this road ahead


I like Tea
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Hiya Julian

Haters are gonna hate no matter what.

Tho am glad your working on LTF, i haven't played in a long time but i know your working hard in editing the map. Probably why its survived as long as it has


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Yeah, you have my full support Julian. Might be a bit harsh on you sometimes, but you're doing good, and you should continue with what you believe is right. x)


one fool once told me have faith in humanity
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Best of luck! (Btw when the path that will make LTF great again?)


Well-Known Member
Map Maker
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Since being back a few weeks I've been playing LTF a lot and must say I'm really enjoying the changes, the new terrained areas look great, especially Alterac, and although I'm a afraid to say it, the stability seems a lot better now. I rarely see people DCing and the loading times are a lot quicker, I think LTF is in a really healthy place right now, despite all the recent issues with Blizzard and Reforged.

I find your comments about balance very interesting, as you;ve basically come to same conclusion I did while working on this map, LTF good vs evil is fundamentally flawed and always has been. Its been a problem I;ve tried to address in my own ways previous, the main problem is how you have 2 evil players up North, meant to push against 5 alliance players, then 4 Legion players against 1 alliance player down south.

There's a lot more detail to it that just that, but that's the basic principle and why the balance is often so askew. Only something radical is going to fix this, before my hiatus I had planned to add Nerubians as the 3rd starting faction for Scourge, to try and balance the bottom heavy evil team, but never got round to it. But now I'm thinking it wouldn't be the right time to add a 13th or 14th faction to the game, as this would further increase lobby waiting times. Other radical ideas I've considered involved giving Legion a full Malganis path where he sides with the Lich King, therefore splitting evil team 3 v 3 during the civil war. Another idea was to allow Brown to choose between Dragonmaw Clan or Nerubians at game start.

There is no easy fix for this, and I could understand if map editors shy away from trying to address this, as I did. But if I was to go back in time and redesign LTF again, I would definitely not have Evil team split 2 v 4 as it is now.

The other problem you;ve touched on in your post is the fact that Alliance seems to be a lot more fun to play than evil team and most people seem to enjoy it more. I was in a lobby a few days ago where Alliance team filled up in first 5 minutes, but then had to wait another half hour for evil to fill. There are various reasons for this but I think the most obvious are down to how many second chances and options alliance factions have, as opposed to evil. And the fact that alliance playstyle is more reactive rather than pro-active, unlike evil team. Again there's no easy fix for...

Anyway, these are just my view and probably not particularly helpful, you and your team are doing a great job Julian and it's clear LTF is in good hands. :)