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[Work in progress] LTA 1.56 Changelog

Catan

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Sounds nice, but
- The train limit of Workers has been removed. WHY
 

ZeroFlotsie

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So many good changes lemme list the ones I mostly appreciate :D

- The train limit of Workers has been removed.
- The seas of LTA are now inhabited by Pirates, renegade naga and even krakens. Look out for your exiled hero squad fleeing in a boat! I GENUINELY LOVE THIS @Spampolice FEAR THE PIRATES
- Industrial Horde path has been renamed back to True Horde, among other misc. features.
- Rend Blackhand can now once more summon Nefarian. Consider Nefarian to be vanilla Browns final quest in the same fashion as Lich King for Blue.
- There has been a cleanup of all tribute units of the L:TA community, with the exception of Harald and Crab’themar.
- Several passageways in the map that are theoretically lore-incorrect have been filled with destroyable rock chunks to mitigate this fact somewhat, while still keeping the way open.
- The Lich King has Remorseless Winter once more. MY BOI IS BACK


- Fixed the horrendous looping sound bug constantly playing around the Black Temple

Thank you very much @Draupne for picking LTA up again.
 

SvnmS

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Looking nice ! I don't agree with everything but it is shaping up to be great !

Changes I like most :
Stromgarde, Loch Modan and Burning Steppes reterrains. All these look much better functionally ! Kargath might be amazing as well ! but I'm not sure till I test that in game.
Goblin Shredders have 150 less hit points, a less widespread attack dice, and 25 less lumber capacity each harvest run. Shredders may no longer Repair mechanical units or structures. I like this a lot, they were too good.
The Doom Guards periodically spawning at the Draenor Rifts have been removed. This was too annoying to manage for a lot of people after the Outland battle ended, better have it gone.
A new type of capturable building has been added around Lordaeron, named Lordaeron Tower. These structures are capturable towers with a long vision range, good for scouting for attacks and using as reliable TP scroll targets. Lordaeron towers can be found in Eastern Plaguelands, Tirisfal and Hillsbrad. I like this, but I'm wondering if they become active immediately upon capture and gain full health. They would be terrible defensive positions in that case. It's better if they become unactif on capture, and then need an upgrade that costs a bit of gold and lumber, and most importantly, time. A building that switches owners is more devastating to the defensive player, because it can hit that players catapults and cannot hit the attacker's, among other disadvantages.
I hope to see a Nefarian rework, the mixture of spells he has now feels really bad to me, and that he is unavailable for other brown paths.

I like all other things, except that I'm sad to see the worker limits gone ! (ghouls being able to harvest included in this)
And I'm not sure about this implementation for san'layn, you get rewards for taking the quest, then you suicide Illidan and join the Scourge/Cult for free ? In my idea world, the scourge looses something for accepting san'layn, and not something small. Or just not having san'layn at all because loosing things isn't fun.

Other than these two points, everything looks nice, just don't forget to revert the blood elves to normal red if you are using maroon for the scarlet crusade. (it should be somewhere in the init triggers, an action that makes blood elves maroon, or did I remove that ? I don't know !)
 

Kolladan

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And I'm not sure about this implementation for san'layn, you get rewards for taking the quest, then you suicide Illidan and join the Scourge/Cult for free ? In my idea world, the scourge looses something for accepting san'layn, and not something small. Or just not having san'layn at all because loosing things isn't fun.
How Illidan's Mission works now? I just tested in 1.54e, even if he fails the mission, he still remain in Fel Elf Pact. So strange....
 

Spampolice

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So many good changes lemme list the ones I mostly appreciate :D

- The train limit of Workers has been removed.
- The seas of LTA are now inhabited by Pirates, renegade naga and even krakens. Look out for your exiled hero squad fleeing in a boat! I GENUINELY LOVE THIS @Spampolice FEAR THE PIRATES
- Industrial Horde path has been renamed back to True Horde, among other misc. features.
- Rend Blackhand can now once more summon Nefarian. Consider Nefarian to be vanilla Browns final quest in the same fashion as Lich King for Blue.
- There has been a cleanup of all tribute units of the L:TA community, with the exception of Harald and Crab’themar.
- Several passageways in the map that are theoretically lore-incorrect have been filled with destroyable rock chunks to mitigate this fact somewhat, while still keeping the way open.
- The Lich King has Remorseless Winter once more. MY BOI IS BACK


- Fixed the horrendous looping sound bug constantly playing around the Black Temple

Thank you very much @Draupne for picking LTA up again.
well
i guess we're playing this map again
 

SUNSTRIDER

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For a lot of the stuff I am positive but also for maybe an equal amount of stuff I am simply neutral.
The one negative thing I see is the removal of the cap on workers, I don't like this. :x
At least make it so that if you spam out too many workers you get a chance for an event - communist rebellion or revolution among your workers for they then become the driving force of your empire and forge a new destiny for themselves! :D

Now for some stuff I think you missed: KJeaden (when summoned) still has that global ability to throw Infernals anywhere on the fucking map... And Sylvanas + Demons alliance can last the whole game. You should either revert it back to it being broken automatically 10 or 15 minutes after start (If Pink player doesn't just decide to do it earlier himself ofc); OR make it so that their alliance is instantly broken when Kil Jeaden summoning starts (best option). (If they want a real alliance then make them go through the motions of Putress betrayal and takeover with Varimatharis!). :]

Total sum: Excited for the new developments!! :)
 
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Mesis

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Looking nice ! I don't agree with everything but it is shaping up to be great !

Changes I like most :
Goblin Shredders have 150 less hit points, a less widespread attack dice, and 25 less lumber capacity each harvest run. Shredders may no longer Repair mechanical units or structures. I like this a lot, they were too good.
Et tu, SvnmS?

Actually the only above the average unit in Green´s roster. Quite sad to see it nerfed

I dont like this one:
- Troll Brawlers and Ice Troll Brawlers have had their Evasion rating, movement speed, attack range and magic resistance nerfed.


Also where is "Dwarves no longer start as a part of Broken Alliance. To rejoin the Broken Alliance you either have to destroy Kargath/Blackrock/Dragonmaw port or lose Ironforge and 15 minutes must have passed since the start of the game" ;)
 
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SvnmS

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I'm not sure about the Troll Brawlers and Ice Troll Brawlers either, I have no idea how much they got nerfed so I didn't comment on it. If it's very small changes on all those values, then it should be fine. But they might have been sent into oblivion again.

Also, I don't think the nerf to shredders affects the fights that much, at least not the large ones, it does make them much weaker in skirmishes where they can't keep healing forever without enough damage from the opposing side.
And green wasn't really weak, so it isn't a big deal. I did nerf the lumber collection rate previously, Draupne nerfed the capacity, but the capacity shouldn't be as big a hit as a collection rate hit.
 

Mesis

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I'm not sure about the Troll Brawlers and Ice Troll Brawlers either, I have no idea how much they got nerfed so I didn't comment on it. If it's very small changes on all those values, then it should be fine. But they might have been sent into oblivion again.

Also, I don't think the nerf to shredders affects the fights that much, at least not the large ones, it does make them much weaker in skirmishes where they can't keep healing forever without enough damage from the opposing side.
And green wasn't really weak, so it isn't a big deal. I did nerf the lumber collection rate previously, Draupne nerfed the capacity, but the capacity shouldn't be as big a hit as a collection rate hit.
My issue is that whenever Horde gets nerfed it doesnt get a compesation elsewhere. Horde was indeed a rather OP faction before True Horde and Maghar paths and addition of Orange but since then it is one of the weakest factions. Mainly due to its difficult starting position.

My general prediction would be that since new update Horde in South will abandon Kargath and trade it for Dragonmaw Port and Earthen Ring.
 

ZeroFlotsie

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My issue is that whenever Horde gets nerfed it doesnt get a compesation elsewhere. Horde was indeed a rather OP faction before True Horde and Maghar paths and addition of Orange but since then it is one of the weakest factions. Mainly due to its difficult starting position.

My general prediction would be that since new update Horde in South will abandon Kargath and trade it for Dragonmaw Port and Earthen Ring.
This, now that the dragonmaw port is no longer a main base, I can see horde just abandoning Kargath and going there. Get there events and rejoin their allies on Aerie Peak.
 

Spectator

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How Illidan's Mission works now? I just tested in 1.54e, even if he fails the mission, he still remain in Fel Elf Pact. So strange....
I swear it does and used to work in 1.53. I don't think anything changed in 1.54.

If I remember correctly If you kill Frozen throne yourself you get to keep illidan and the Naga when you accept pact. The trigger doesn't work sometimes but when it does Illidan says a voice line: "You and your Lich King duped me once, Now I have the upper hand"
However if you fail or don't complete the mission you can still go Fel Elves. However you lose illidan and the Naga.
 

Kolladan

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I swear it does and used to work in 1.53. I don't think anything changed in 1.54.

If I remember correctly If you kill Frozen throne yourself you get to keep illidan and the Naga when you accept pact. The trigger doesn't work sometimes but when it does Illidan says a voice line: "You and your Lich King duped me once, Now I have the upper hand"
However if you fail or don't complete the mission you can still go Fel Elves. However you lose illidan and the Naga.
So if its in concept supposed to look as earlier before (Rekt LK to be a worthy ally, or suck a dick with a solo pathetic fel Kael) then the whole Illidan Mission is now gonna looks really ridiculous. And now its gonna smth looks like: "Daddy, give me the mission!" - "Empower my potential enemy in Outland giving him additional resources to rush me, while I'm handling the Fel Horde, who is trying to survive only, because its his only way to do such a thing. And also give my worst enemy, the Scourge additional potential ally, because being a Fel Elf with a solo Kael sucks, while rekting 2 fucking OP Scourge players for a poor Illidan is a nearly impossible thing.... Sure. Why not?"
I am really thinking that it must be a properly remade somehow.
 

Spectator

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So if its in concept supposed to look as earlier before (Rekt LK to be a worthy ally, or suck a dick with a solo pathetic fel Kael) then the whole Illidan Mission is now gonna looks really ridiculous. And now its gonna smth looks like: "Daddy, give me the mission!" - "Empower my potential enemy in Outland giving him additional resources to rush me, while I'm handling the Fel Horde, who is trying to survive only, because its his only way to do such a thing. And also give my worst enemy, the Scourge additional potential ally, because being a Fel Elf with a solo Kael sucks, while rekting 2 fucking OP Scourge players for a poor Illidan is a nearly impossible thing.... Sure. Why not?"
I am really thinking that it must be a properly remade somehow.
Ah You still ally Legion if you fail mission just lose illidan and Vashj. It shouldn't be Solo Kael either. Should Kael and The other Blood elf hero Valera sangilur or something. Seems good. Illidan and Vashj allied to Legion is retardedly OP. It's only fair a sacrifice is needed to gain that much power. Plus you are still quite good support to Legion as fel elves. Solo you are not good but grouped your synergy with Legion is crazy.

The whole thing is just unfair to Fel Horde tho. A planned illidari and Legion alliance can just rekt Fel Horde. When illidari happens, Legion can just leave and go somewhere else while Fel Horde has to fight or get fully wiped out. Usually therefore Legion and Illidari just team up on Fel Horde who has 0 chance. Yes I know Illidari can ally Fel Horde too but that's just a stupid alliance. Unless you are doing it for cosplay reasons, I don't see a damned reason why illidari would want to ally shitty Fel Horde. Illidari-Legion Alliance is 10 times stronger than Illidari-shitty Fel Horde alliance.

As for Scourge it's not hard to take out or for better word cripple. Legion can totally mess up Undead's early game by going to Northrend and farming it early. Meanwhile illidari and Legion are sorta a conter to undead and have far better economy than Undead in early game. Only Thing is Blue/Cult will turtle up being their OP Chokepoint like a bitch and that's quite hard to take out but just most sieges in LTA over a long cancerous time you eventually can take it out but usually it's 2 hour in the game and you have crashed by then.
 

Kolladan

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A planned illidari and Legion alliance can just rekt Fel Horde.
Thats the main thing: it happens only in pre-made games, where you're with some buddy plan a setup before game even starts. In not premade Both Legion and Illidari one-way or another will have a huge troubles of establishing such an alliance. Mostly in not pre-made games the illidari will just rekt both opponents, while they will fight each other and then just will be fooling around (or subdue a FH, as a last chance, rather than trying to defeat the Scourge). The whole Outland situation is unfortunately is heavy relied on pre-made things, which is completely not right
 

SUNSTRIDER

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Well the existence of the mission to kill LK by Illidan (as prerequisite for joining either Legion or Scourge) is what delays Legion-Illidari alliance from just ganging up on Fel Horde at start.
 

Onyx

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Illidari should lose the Blood Elves and Kael when he joins Legion
This alliance is way too strong anyway, 2 solo races together, exactly like Dark Iron and Twilight Hammer
Decrease the maximun amount of heroes this alliance can have would be one way to make it viable

Removing BE from this alliance would also give a point to both stay Illidari and join scourge
Failing the mission could in opposite make Illidan permadie, and turning red into Fel elves, and losing naga

Well to be fair I don't like the fact that sanlyn is tied to legion rather than scourge, it already doesn't happen that often
And its not supergreat either, it should rather be buffed and mechanic staying like on previous version
 

Spectator

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Thats the main thing: it happens only in pre-made games, where you're with some buddy plan a setup before game even starts. In not premade Both Legion and Illidari one-way or another will have a huge troubles of establishing such an alliance. Mostly in not pre-made games the illidari will just rekt both opponents, while they will fight each other and then just will be fooling around (or subdue a FH, as a last chance, rather than trying to defeat the Scourge). The whole Outland situation is unfortunately is heavy relied on pre-made things, which is completely not right
Not exactly. I barely ever play with a teammate, specially in hostile teams when it comes to LTA. However I pretty much always secure a illidari-Legion alliance as Illidari. Hell I even done that almost every time in Netease China and I barely no one and barely communicate with them.

If you assume players are rational and are trying their best to win, instead of roleplaying. (This is how you think about balance). Then it only makes sense for illidari and Teal to ally. All I usually do is after illidari is just private message Teal and ask for ally. I have done is a lot of times and answer was always YES. Sometimes Legion has a battle with me to test my skill and check If it's worthy ally and after losing they accept. Teal then just leaves outland and goes Northend and tol-barad where he can just creep contested and probs get more gold then than from Outland.

Meanwhile Rekting Fel Horde as illidari is quite easy, specially if Legion helps too but not really needed. You see, as illidari I'm not stupid enough to ever choose alliance with Dark Horde instead of Legion. Legion is far more powerful than shitty dark horde. So unless Legion is DCed or outright sucks I'm gonna ally him.

Trusting Legion is a bit harder to ally but I Take the Risk. Illidari is probably Legion's strongest ally if I succeed mission so I see no reason for Legion to betray unless I fail. Not only that OJ and Brown suck as Legion allies and barely accept. Only competitor is Forsaken but Forsaken also barely goes Legion path. So no Legion and illidari should ally almost every time even if they don't know each other but are trying to win the game.
 
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